A pioneer in the field of Astrochemistry, teacher, recipient of numerous awards, and president of the International Astronomical Union (IAU); I was thrilled when Ewine van Dishoeck made the time to sit down and chat with me. We touched on a number of subjects including science, her hobbies and how she views success when she looks back at the path that led to her own remarkable career. During our pleasant talk she also shared a generous amount of advice that students and female scientists in particular will surely find valuable. I set out to capture all this information in a single article that shows who Ewine van Dishoeck is, this time from a student’s perspective.

Our conversation began with the subject of her research, and all the choices and unforeseeable events that shaped her career. Starting off as a chemist, I was curious to hear about the circumstances that led her to not only switch disciplines but to also proceed to become one of the most acclaimed astronomers of our time.

You obtained a Bachelor’s degree in both chemistry and mathematics and subsequently did a Master’s in chemistry as well. What was the reason behind the switch from chemistry to astronomy?

“Well I think that’s actually also a lesson for students. Your career never goes from A to B to C in the way that you envisioned. There are always surprises and you have to grab them! When I was studying theoretical chemistry I liked it and I liked working with molecules. I thought that I would continue there. But then the professor in theoretical chemistry passed away and I was told that despite my high grades I couldn’t do my PhD. So I needed to start looking elsewhere. My boyfriend at that time, Tim de Zeeuw, who is now my husband, had just taken a course in interstellar medium (ed. the space between stars), around the same time that the first molecules had been detected. He said to me, ‘Well I’ve heard about these molecules in space, isn’t that something for you?’ So I was put in contact with a professor at Harvard that was in the field and that’s how it all started!”

What type of research is being conducted in Astrochemistry?

“The overarching theme of the research that we do is: where do we come from? When people look at the sky they see the stars, the planets and the galaxies but they never think about what is in between the stars. But that is where our origins actually are and for someone who is originally a chemist, it always fascinates me that it is the atoms and the molecules where it all begins.

From an astronomer’s point of view, you can say that the research is concerned with the chemical blocks that are available to build new planets. From a chemist’s point of view you might think that interstellar space is actually a unique laboratory. There are chemical processes occurring at extreme low densities so you’re really testing chemistry under very exotic conditions. This means that you basically have to understand chemistry at a very fundamental level and ask questions that you might not normally ask in a laboratory on Earth. So that is also something that fascinates me.”

What does your own personal research entail?

“I look at both the early stages of star formation when the cloud is actually collapsing to form a protostar and now, with new telescopes such as ALMA (Atacama Large Millimeter/submillimeter Array), we can also zoom in on protoplanetary disks in exactly the regions where new planets are being formed at this very moment. In terms of chemistry a lot of my research is focused on water, and I just recently finished a major summary paper on the topic.”

A lot of Ewine’s research was driven by the advancement in technology and instrumentation such as the Herschel Space Observatory, so it was not a surprise when she told me that she herself had a hand in developing some of the most outrageous telescopes that are currently being used by astronomers all over the world, such as ALMA, the largest radio telescope in the world at the moment.

“I feel fortunate that I was able to make my career with the ISO (Infrared Space Observatory) in the 1990’s. That was in part thanks to others, who had put in the time and effort to make those missions happen and develop the instruments. They did all the hard work and I was the one who could say ‘oh wonderful, all this data!’. So then I realized that it was my responsibility to do the same for future generations because of the long time scales for such projects in our field. ALMA has been so transformational and it’s been a joy to see. With the James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) it was a bottom-up process when it became clear that it really needed a mid-infrared instrument and so we created MIRI.”

Quite a multifaceted field, Ewine also came in contact with the experimental aspects of Astrochemstry where at some point she became the director of the Laboratory for Astrophysics in Leiden. On the question which aspect of the field excited her the most, she was unable to choose just one.

“Indeed throughout my career I’ve sort of touched on all the points of this golden triangle of Astrochemistry: models, observations and laboratory experiments, where under laboratory experiments I would also count quantum chemistry calculations. I would say that experimental and observational work are equally exciting to me and the modeling work is slightly below that!”

"Your career never goes from A to B to C in the way that you envisioned. There are always surprises and unexpected opportunities, and you have to grab them!"

And when you look into the future, what developments do you expect in the field of Astrochemistry?

“Unfortunately, you never know! One of my sayings has been that all of the new information is in the weak lines and not in the strong lines (ed. in astronomy, ‘lines’ are observables within a celestial body’s spectrum. A line is ‘strong’ when it is more readily observable). Because you might have some weak features in your spectrum that you had ignored but that turn out to be the lead into something new. So I expect new unexpected things with ALMA but obviously the JWST is the next big step.”

Although her research and the upcoming surprises in the field of Astrochemistry were thrilling and occupied a lot of her time, Ewine is also involved in a number of activities that in her own words, are as equally important as her research itself.

I understand that among the many activities and projects that you’re involved in, outreach programs are one of those that you invest quite a lot of time in. Is this correct?

“Yes, it’s something that I’ve always enjoyed! Very early on it became clear that this was part of being an astronomer, what do you give back to society. People are interested in astronomy, in the stars and the planets and kids are interested as well. So it’s a way of engaging with them. Once I got over the scary part of doing it for the first time, I started to appreciate it. So I made it a point to always have a number of talks and events throughout my career. I strongly encourage all my PhD students to do a number of outreach programs as well.”

She proceeded to recount the incredible success they had back in 2019 with the celebration of the 100 years of the International Astronomical Union, where they had reached more than 100 million people across the globe through public events. This prompted me to share with her a story about a Colombian student that I had spoken to, who had been determined to come to Leiden to get his Master’s because he was very interested in doing a project with Ewine van Dishoeck. It was then that I asked her if she was aware that a lot of her students viewed her as an inspiration.

“Wow, I am very touched. I am certainly not aware of all this and I am happy to be an inspiration because I think inspiration is very important to trigger curiosity.”

But with the many things that occupy your time, why is teaching still one of the aspects of your career that you continue to put effort into?

“I do enjoy the teaching very much. It’s also always good for the teacher as well because you always have to be one lecture ahead of the students so it forces you to keep up with the field, which I like. The only thing I do not enjoy is the increasing amount of administration that comes with it.”

When I asked her how she finds balance when she has so many responsibilities, her answer came with yet another very useful piece of advice for her students.

“That’s a good question because it’s so important to have that balance. It’s not always easy, you always think you can nicely plan things but often that never works: unexpected things happen and you have to deal with that. I religiously take a summer vacation to go camping in the western parts of the USA, and for two and half weeks I completely shut off from the outside world. No cellphones, no laptops. That’s part of my balance. So make sure you have at least one hobby that helps you relax!”

As it turns out, Ewine herself had a hobby that she was quite passionate about…

I’m aware that art and especially the link between art and astronomy is a big passion of yours. What is it about this specific type of art that you are so drawn to?

“Yes, this is again the fascination that people have with the night sky. When my mother was still alive we used to go to museums. She was a big art lover and whenever we went to a museum we made it a game to find anything related to astronomy. It was amazing because wherever we went across the world we found something! She also had a book about the aboriginals’ art in Australia and of course there you have the beautiful southern sky above you and so they have these paintings of the Milky Way that are part of their cosmology and society.”

Do you have any favorite artists or pieces?

“Aside from the aboriginals’ paintings, I also like pieces from Wassily Kandinsky and Joan Miró. They both have beautiful paintings of the stars and comets.”

"Make sure that you have at least one hobby that helps you relax!"

And do you have any artistic talents yourself? Should people be looking out to buy a masterpiece painted by Ewine van Dishoeck?

“I wish, but no, I’m not at all good at painting! My skills are more in music. I play the violin. I used to play in a gypsy orchestra, which is actually how I met my husband!”

Her exciting research along with her numerous other occupations makes for a stellar and certainly vivid career. So for someone who has reached that level of success, I was interested to hear her own thoughts on the subject.

You’ve received many awards throughout your career. Back in 2018 you were awarded with the Kavli Prize in Astrophysics which is equivalent to a Nobel Prize in Astronomy. For someone who is at the very top of their career, how do you define success?

“The Kavli prize was certainly absolutely incredible. I felt on top of the world! With the ceremony and everything, you were treated like a movie star and the fact that I was able to celebrate it with so many friends and colleagues made it even more special. But success comes in steps. For example, when I got my first paper published I was thinking 'Wow!', or even going back to when you get your first 9 on an exam. So there are so many levels of success and they are all special in their own way. So celebrate along the way!”

I’m also curious to know what it is like to be such an accomplished female scientist in what is considered to be a ‘man's world’.

“It is indeed a point that the fraction of women in science is still low and we are working on this in the Netherlands. It is increasing but it’s going slowly, sometimes slower than one would like. I must confess that I have never seen it as a barrier. I’ve had the greatest support from my professors who have opened so many doors for me and it’s very important that the senior people open doors for the younger generation. I used to joke with my husband that he got all the female students and I got all the male students. In the long run we need to have balance, you need to have a mixed group of genders and nationalities. I believe what we have to do is train young women but most importantly make sure that they stay in the system and that we don’t lose them along the way. That starts at the very early stages and with the little things such as helping them build confidence. At the IAU we have several programs for women and girls in astronomy so we are definitely working on this.”

“There are so many levels of success and they are all special in their own way. So celebrate along the way!”

And what advice would you give to young girls and students that are currently pursuing or perhaps thinking about pursuing a career in science?

“Make sure that you excel at something! It’s much better to be very good at one thing and maybe not so good in others instead of being average in everything. Make sure that you are noticed.”

Finally, before our talk came to its inevitable end, I asked Ewine if she could answer a series of rapid questions that would make it possible for anyone to ‘get to know Ewine in five seconds’. What she didn’t know was that at the very end, I put in a very tricky one…

If you weren’t a scientist what would you be doing?

“Music! Playing violin in an orchestra.”

What inspires you?

“Finding out the answer to something that is not yet known.”

What advice did you ever get that was the most useful?

“Take the steepest trajectory early on in your career because that will determine where you end up.”

What do you think people notice most about you?

“My smile.”

What do you hope people notice most about you?

“Passion for what I do.”

Favorite city you have visited?

“That is a good question! Usually it’s not a city, it’s a place in the countryside. For example, Grand International Park in California”

Favorite planet?

“That would be one of the outer planets. Let’s pick Neptune.”

Favorite molecule?

"Water."

Coffee or tea?

“Both! I start with tea in the morning and then coffee in the afternoon.”

Pancakes or waffles?

“Pancakes.”

Winter or Summer?

“Well, skiing is one of my hobbies so I would almost say a good winter day but on the other hand summer is for camping. That’s difficult!”

Cats or Dogs?

"Oh cats, definitely."

Classic Art or Modern Art?

“Modern art but not too modern. For example, I don’t like contemporary art.”

Reading or writing?

"Reading."

Comedy or drama?

“I do enjoy a good comedy definitely, but I probably watch more drama.”

Any favorite TV show you would recommend?

“Well of course there are all the old Star Trek series. A good crime show can also be good though!”

Astronomy or Chemistry?

“ASTROCHEMISTRY!”

It was not at all surprising that she had seen right through the trick question and laughing I thanked her for her time and willingness to answer these questions. I knew that my next challenge was to bring all her enthusiasm over into written words, and while I can’t be certain I did her justice, I know that any reader will walk away with a better sense of who Ewine van Dishoeck is and what her message is to her students.